Thanks for your post. You presume to address Groypers directly, yet you paywall the comments section. Tremble in fear, for I've got 8 bucks to burn and something to say to you.
If you sense anger from white Americans of European descent against Jews in particular it is most likely because while Jews unashamedly advocate for themselves and promote their own self interest (as is their right), whites who do this are shamed, attacked, and compared to Hitler for doing the same thing, very often by other white people. For Zoomer Groypers their entire lives have been like this. If Groypers are "jealous" of Israeli society it is probably, again, because Israelis are not just allowed but encouraged to advocate for their own self interest and they are not.
Leftist Wokeism is an explicitly anti-white phenomenon that has it's roots with the Critical Theory developed by Jewish Frankfurt School thinkers such as Max Horkheimer, Theodor Adorno, and Herbert Marcuse. This school of thought was imported to American universities and disseminated to American boomers such as Tom Hayden and his Students for a Democratic Society throughout the 60s. As you know in the faux religion of Wokeism, as opposed to other faiths, there is no rite of confession and no avenue for forgiveness. Sin is heritable, guilt is assigned by ethnicity, and any white person living today bears the weight of sin of every white person who ever lived. They must therefore flagellate themselves in public at all times. Jewish people in turn are taught that white Europeans must never be allowed to assert even a shred of self interest, for if they did they would instantly turn into Hitler and start holocausting all over the place. Wokeism is a double edged sword of course. I predicted after October 7th when Netanyahu and the Likudniks began bombing the shit out of brown people in Gaza that the Golem of Frankfurt would turn upon it's master and therefore be discarded, and like clockwork we are increasingly seeing articles in both mainstream and alternative media about how Wokeism is actually bad and the Left went too far.
To your next point an inflation adjusted 300+ billion dollars in foreign aid to Israel since 1948 is nothing to sneeze at. Even so, this ignores the wars the United States has fought exclusively for Israel's strategic interest which include the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, the Syria Campaign, and the recent 12 Day War, which I was sure was going to turn into another land war. Indeed, USAF pilots flying USAF aircraft have been directly defending Israel from Iranian drone attacks and engaging in offensive action against Iran since October 7th. All of these wars since 2001 have cost the United States 15 thousand dead (soldiers and contractors combined) and a further 53 thousand wounded. In terms of dollars spent to prosecute these wars including the cost of military operations, veteran's care, and interest on war debt the United States has paid over 6 Trillion. Our boys have little to show for this, but at least Israel's middle eastern enemies are in shambles. All of this is possible because of the great power the Israel lobby has in Washington.
I hope the above examples will go some way toward explaining the animus against Jews in particular. For what it's worth I have no ill will against Jews in my heart. I think it's foolish to come after Jews as a whole and that doing so only perpetuates the wretched cycle of ethno-collective guilt. I'm not even against the fundamental idea of Jewish people having a nation of their own to call home. If anything Jews ought to know well the pain of having no nation, so I expect you understand the anger of the American when he is told that what was his home will now be a multicultural special economic zone, that he has an increasingly slim chance of having a family or a community, that he will own nothing, and that he will be happy. In what way can disaffected Zoomers implement the Israeli model for themselves? What institutional support can they reasonably rely on? I say they are on their own, and their only option is to take matters into their own hands, just as the Jews who founded Israel did.
Pure slop. You have a tremendous victim complex. Anti-immigration sentiment is the norm, and not some fringe thing, to the point where even Biden had to talk about being tough on immigration and clamp things down. The idea that only Israelis and supporters of Israel are allowed to be anti-foreigner is nonsense. If anything your views on immigration are far more popular and openly supported than pro-Israel sentiment.
Wrt what you say about wars the US has fought, your view of the reasoning behind them is retarded. Afghanistan was fought because they were harboring Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda for one, not because Israel wanted us to. Israel had no strategic interest in fighting the Taliban. In fact the Taliban was arguably good for Israel because of how anti-Iran they were. They exterminated the Iranians at their consulate for instance.
For Iraq, Israel's government massively lobbied against the Iraq War, because Saddam was anti-Iran to the point of waging a war against them that killed half a million of their soldiers. Sure Bibi wanted the war, but he wasn't in the government, so when people use that to say Israel was supportive of the war it is either misleading or dishonest.
"Jewish people in turn are taught that white Europeans must never be allowed to assert even a shred of self interest, for if they did they would instantly turn into Hitler and start holocausting all over the place."
"For what it's worth I have no ill will against Jews in my heart."
Lmfao.
As a closing note, all this anti-jew sentiment on the far right at its core is basically based on the idea that jews are more liberal and that it is because of some unique quality jews have, but in reality jews aren't any more liberal when you account for religiosity and education. Your average secular white college-educated individual is equally liberal as the average jew in such a position. If anything I would even say jews I have known have been considerably more conservative/moderate than the average non-jewish white person, but that is anecdotal and it's what I said earlier that is supported by the data. I hope individuals like you come to realize that this scapegoating and caricaturing of jews just serves to needlessly alienate people from your side. Idiots like you are responsible for the drain of human capital from the right.
Etch, anti-immigration sentiment is not the norm and pro-immigration sentiment is common and accepted nationwide. According to this Gallup article from last July (https://news.gallup.com/poll/692522/surge-concern-immigration-abated.aspx) "a record-high 79% of U.S. adults call it a good thing; a record-low 17% see it as a bad thing." This sentiment is even more prevalent in the blue state areas I live around and more prevalent still with the bureaucrats who make decisions about these kinds of things, the Trump administration notwithstanding. Expressing anti-immigrant sentiment is a cancellable offense at least in liberal circles and I find it disingenuous to suggest this isn't the case. It's not even remotely close to the commonly accepted view held by Israelis that Israel is an explicitly Jewish state and that Arabs are second class citizens at best and should probably just leave.
To your second point the United States would have had no business in Afghanistan were it not for 9/11, and Al Qaeda would not have carried out this operation were it not for the presence of the US military in the Middle East and it's support for Israel. Furthermore, everything was done by Israel aligned Neoconservatives such as Donald Rumsfeld, Richard Perle, and Dick Cheney to push the United States into a war with Iraq, and Cheney wanted to go even further and invade Iran as well. To suggest that Israel did not want war with Iraq at all is the real dishonesty, and to suggest that Netanyahu the "private citizen" was somehow not attempting to further Israel's strategic goals by testifying before Congress that the Saddam regime must be overthrown is likewise.
There was disagreement among Israeli strategists about whether it would be good to remove the Saddam regime as a potential threat or if taking Iraq off the board would have the effect of strengthening Iran's position, which was the view held by Ariel Sharon. Despite this AIPAC aggressively lobbied Congressional offices by distributing "Briefing Books" that suggested that any solution in which regime change did not happen in Iraq would just be kicking the can down the road and The Near East Report (AIPAC) went on to suggest that Saddam was involved with Al Qaeda and supported them in carrying out the 9/11 attacks. That all being said, I would invite you to ask why the United States is constantly getting involved in wars all over the Middle East, not just in these places, but also in Syria, Lebanon, and Yemen, and why we still rattle the saber against Iran.
Lastly, I would wager that all Right wingers of worth share my view on the power of the Israel lobby in the United States. The ones that did not were only conserving Dubya era Neoconservatism with Zionist characteristics and offered nothing of value to us. As for whatever qualities Jewish people may or may not have I simply don't care, my only criteria is whether or not your loyalty is to America and it's people above and ahead of all other nations.
This is going to be my last response before unsubscribing from this random substacker. Just want to say firstly that sure anti immigration sentiment has largely decreased as of recently, but your own source says just a year ago over half of Americans supported reducing immigration. That's a majority. Anecdotally, I have talked to many progressives who have voiced concerns regarding immigration, and none were cancelled. And it makes sense that Israelis would be more concerned about arabs than Americans over groups that immigrate to America considering that most of them are descendents of people expelled from arab countries and that most arabs want them all expelled/killed/raped/oppressed/etc.
> To your second point the United States would have had no business in Afghanistan were it not for 9/11, and Al Qaeda would not have carried out this operation were it not for the presence of the US military in the Middle East and it's support for Israel.
Even if that were the case, that does not in any way mean the war in Afghanistan was for Israeli interests. It was for American interests (responding to 9/11) and if anything was strategically bad for Israel.
> To suggest that Israel did not want war with Iraq at all is the real dishonesty
Not when the literal government of Israel was lobbying against the war. You completely disregard any evidence that would go against your narrative.
In terms of why America gets involved in the middle east, we have been doing it since long before Israel ever even existed. Thomas Jefferson fought the Barbary Wars for instance. The middle east is strategically important and so it makes sense the US has a presence in it. Not that complicated. Did France have a presence in the ME due to Israel too? The UK? Russia?
Obviously nick is misguided. Obviously there is something afoot within the Organizational (corporate and bureaucratic) composition of america. As we move from Green to Teal, we leave behind organizations and move to a network based society, but this leaves many pain points. We wrestle with abstract concepts, powers and principalities, not people. Two more obvious facts: there was a plot to kill charlie kirk and commandeer TPUSA, and Epstein was a major engineer in the 08 recession. It will take a bit for these facts to reach mainstream acceptance, but they seem inevitable - the propaganda campaigns against both are failing, the internet is just too powerful of a tool for open source grass roots journalism. The deception and coverup strategies that duped half animal Boomers fall laughably short against half machine Zoomers. Both of our political parties, within the last year, have become split along generational lines. Zoomers were never naïve enough like millennials, we do not cry for a world we never expected to receive, we also fall for zero conventional bullshit (but are susceptible to weird para social cults like nick). The proportion of Normies in each generation isn’t decreasing; I predict that by the end of Alpha, a majority of 18 year old dudes will have at least considered the JQ. It’s rather hilarious watching people like Nick, Candace and Tucker slowly figure out what is going on in our country and lose their pre-rational attachment to Trump. For the teenager who is intelligent and interested in politics enough, spending a bit of time online makes it very clear how each faction or worldview is misguided or naive. Unfortunately even many adults lack proper intelligence (a stupid person being identified as one who supports anything unwaveringly) and thus while they are correct in some of their diagnoses (woke Greenness is not the holy grail), they naively believe that there are simple answers (elect zion don cause he says mean words). Back in 2017, when I was laughing at nick the spic for being the embodiment of poc conservatives highlighting their western values while libs pulled Elizabeth Warrens, it was obvious that trump was compromised. What we are seeing now are the fruits of misplaced blind faith beginning to rot, finally; it took them a decade of lapping up everything Trump spewed out to realize. The main reason that i fuck with nick (not that i would ever bother watching his show) is that, of the conservative talking heads, whom i have almost no positive expectations for, he will be one of the few to pleasantly surprise me on occasion. In summer 2024, when he said that Trump has lost his meme energy and he was rocking with the brat coconut summer energy of Kamala, I said thank goodness that someone gave me a take that wasn’t boring. The conservative establishment drags behind the zeitgeist, but the anti-establishment commentators will eventually give you small pieces of discrepancy, even if it is a painfully slow drip. Over the last decade of monitoring the situation, I’ve watched nick become the primary caretaker for that drip, but it seems to be on the verge of becoming a faucet. If the average conservative boomer finds out that his kid’s favorite political influencer was killed for asking questions, and that the financial crisis which cost him his house was very connected to this, we will see the boomer overcome the community values he was raised (indoctrinated) into. No longer will the post WW2 generation be the most passive in history. I find this change very concerning, and have been working tirelessly (and full time) on this topic. All change has the potential for both good and bad, but this one must be seriously guided with wisdom if we hope to transmute such internal chaos and upheaval into awareness-raising self-organizing progress. If you could say one thing to nick, or ask a question, what would it be? I find this topic very important, so if any would like to chat my signal is wof.53
Hi Arynne,
Thanks for your post. You presume to address Groypers directly, yet you paywall the comments section. Tremble in fear, for I've got 8 bucks to burn and something to say to you.
If you sense anger from white Americans of European descent against Jews in particular it is most likely because while Jews unashamedly advocate for themselves and promote their own self interest (as is their right), whites who do this are shamed, attacked, and compared to Hitler for doing the same thing, very often by other white people. For Zoomer Groypers their entire lives have been like this. If Groypers are "jealous" of Israeli society it is probably, again, because Israelis are not just allowed but encouraged to advocate for their own self interest and they are not.
Leftist Wokeism is an explicitly anti-white phenomenon that has it's roots with the Critical Theory developed by Jewish Frankfurt School thinkers such as Max Horkheimer, Theodor Adorno, and Herbert Marcuse. This school of thought was imported to American universities and disseminated to American boomers such as Tom Hayden and his Students for a Democratic Society throughout the 60s. As you know in the faux religion of Wokeism, as opposed to other faiths, there is no rite of confession and no avenue for forgiveness. Sin is heritable, guilt is assigned by ethnicity, and any white person living today bears the weight of sin of every white person who ever lived. They must therefore flagellate themselves in public at all times. Jewish people in turn are taught that white Europeans must never be allowed to assert even a shred of self interest, for if they did they would instantly turn into Hitler and start holocausting all over the place. Wokeism is a double edged sword of course. I predicted after October 7th when Netanyahu and the Likudniks began bombing the shit out of brown people in Gaza that the Golem of Frankfurt would turn upon it's master and therefore be discarded, and like clockwork we are increasingly seeing articles in both mainstream and alternative media about how Wokeism is actually bad and the Left went too far.
To your next point an inflation adjusted 300+ billion dollars in foreign aid to Israel since 1948 is nothing to sneeze at. Even so, this ignores the wars the United States has fought exclusively for Israel's strategic interest which include the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, the Syria Campaign, and the recent 12 Day War, which I was sure was going to turn into another land war. Indeed, USAF pilots flying USAF aircraft have been directly defending Israel from Iranian drone attacks and engaging in offensive action against Iran since October 7th. All of these wars since 2001 have cost the United States 15 thousand dead (soldiers and contractors combined) and a further 53 thousand wounded. In terms of dollars spent to prosecute these wars including the cost of military operations, veteran's care, and interest on war debt the United States has paid over 6 Trillion. Our boys have little to show for this, but at least Israel's middle eastern enemies are in shambles. All of this is possible because of the great power the Israel lobby has in Washington.
I hope the above examples will go some way toward explaining the animus against Jews in particular. For what it's worth I have no ill will against Jews in my heart. I think it's foolish to come after Jews as a whole and that doing so only perpetuates the wretched cycle of ethno-collective guilt. I'm not even against the fundamental idea of Jewish people having a nation of their own to call home. If anything Jews ought to know well the pain of having no nation, so I expect you understand the anger of the American when he is told that what was his home will now be a multicultural special economic zone, that he has an increasingly slim chance of having a family or a community, that he will own nothing, and that he will be happy. In what way can disaffected Zoomers implement the Israeli model for themselves? What institutional support can they reasonably rely on? I say they are on their own, and their only option is to take matters into their own hands, just as the Jews who founded Israel did.
Pure slop. You have a tremendous victim complex. Anti-immigration sentiment is the norm, and not some fringe thing, to the point where even Biden had to talk about being tough on immigration and clamp things down. The idea that only Israelis and supporters of Israel are allowed to be anti-foreigner is nonsense. If anything your views on immigration are far more popular and openly supported than pro-Israel sentiment.
Wrt what you say about wars the US has fought, your view of the reasoning behind them is retarded. Afghanistan was fought because they were harboring Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda for one, not because Israel wanted us to. Israel had no strategic interest in fighting the Taliban. In fact the Taliban was arguably good for Israel because of how anti-Iran they were. They exterminated the Iranians at their consulate for instance.
For Iraq, Israel's government massively lobbied against the Iraq War, because Saddam was anti-Iran to the point of waging a war against them that killed half a million of their soldiers. Sure Bibi wanted the war, but he wasn't in the government, so when people use that to say Israel was supportive of the war it is either misleading or dishonest.
"Jewish people in turn are taught that white Europeans must never be allowed to assert even a shred of self interest, for if they did they would instantly turn into Hitler and start holocausting all over the place."
"For what it's worth I have no ill will against Jews in my heart."
Lmfao.
As a closing note, all this anti-jew sentiment on the far right at its core is basically based on the idea that jews are more liberal and that it is because of some unique quality jews have, but in reality jews aren't any more liberal when you account for religiosity and education. Your average secular white college-educated individual is equally liberal as the average jew in such a position. If anything I would even say jews I have known have been considerably more conservative/moderate than the average non-jewish white person, but that is anecdotal and it's what I said earlier that is supported by the data. I hope individuals like you come to realize that this scapegoating and caricaturing of jews just serves to needlessly alienate people from your side. Idiots like you are responsible for the drain of human capital from the right.
Etch, anti-immigration sentiment is not the norm and pro-immigration sentiment is common and accepted nationwide. According to this Gallup article from last July (https://news.gallup.com/poll/692522/surge-concern-immigration-abated.aspx) "a record-high 79% of U.S. adults call it a good thing; a record-low 17% see it as a bad thing." This sentiment is even more prevalent in the blue state areas I live around and more prevalent still with the bureaucrats who make decisions about these kinds of things, the Trump administration notwithstanding. Expressing anti-immigrant sentiment is a cancellable offense at least in liberal circles and I find it disingenuous to suggest this isn't the case. It's not even remotely close to the commonly accepted view held by Israelis that Israel is an explicitly Jewish state and that Arabs are second class citizens at best and should probably just leave.
To your second point the United States would have had no business in Afghanistan were it not for 9/11, and Al Qaeda would not have carried out this operation were it not for the presence of the US military in the Middle East and it's support for Israel. Furthermore, everything was done by Israel aligned Neoconservatives such as Donald Rumsfeld, Richard Perle, and Dick Cheney to push the United States into a war with Iraq, and Cheney wanted to go even further and invade Iran as well. To suggest that Israel did not want war with Iraq at all is the real dishonesty, and to suggest that Netanyahu the "private citizen" was somehow not attempting to further Israel's strategic goals by testifying before Congress that the Saddam regime must be overthrown is likewise.
There was disagreement among Israeli strategists about whether it would be good to remove the Saddam regime as a potential threat or if taking Iraq off the board would have the effect of strengthening Iran's position, which was the view held by Ariel Sharon. Despite this AIPAC aggressively lobbied Congressional offices by distributing "Briefing Books" that suggested that any solution in which regime change did not happen in Iraq would just be kicking the can down the road and The Near East Report (AIPAC) went on to suggest that Saddam was involved with Al Qaeda and supported them in carrying out the 9/11 attacks. That all being said, I would invite you to ask why the United States is constantly getting involved in wars all over the Middle East, not just in these places, but also in Syria, Lebanon, and Yemen, and why we still rattle the saber against Iran.
Lastly, I would wager that all Right wingers of worth share my view on the power of the Israel lobby in the United States. The ones that did not were only conserving Dubya era Neoconservatism with Zionist characteristics and offered nothing of value to us. As for whatever qualities Jewish people may or may not have I simply don't care, my only criteria is whether or not your loyalty is to America and it's people above and ahead of all other nations.
This is going to be my last response before unsubscribing from this random substacker. Just want to say firstly that sure anti immigration sentiment has largely decreased as of recently, but your own source says just a year ago over half of Americans supported reducing immigration. That's a majority. Anecdotally, I have talked to many progressives who have voiced concerns regarding immigration, and none were cancelled. And it makes sense that Israelis would be more concerned about arabs than Americans over groups that immigrate to America considering that most of them are descendents of people expelled from arab countries and that most arabs want them all expelled/killed/raped/oppressed/etc.
> To your second point the United States would have had no business in Afghanistan were it not for 9/11, and Al Qaeda would not have carried out this operation were it not for the presence of the US military in the Middle East and it's support for Israel.
Even if that were the case, that does not in any way mean the war in Afghanistan was for Israeli interests. It was for American interests (responding to 9/11) and if anything was strategically bad for Israel.
> To suggest that Israel did not want war with Iraq at all is the real dishonesty
Not when the literal government of Israel was lobbying against the war. You completely disregard any evidence that would go against your narrative.
In terms of why America gets involved in the middle east, we have been doing it since long before Israel ever even existed. Thomas Jefferson fought the Barbary Wars for instance. The middle east is strategically important and so it makes sense the US has a presence in it. Not that complicated. Did France have a presence in the ME due to Israel too? The UK? Russia?
Obviously nick is misguided. Obviously there is something afoot within the Organizational (corporate and bureaucratic) composition of america. As we move from Green to Teal, we leave behind organizations and move to a network based society, but this leaves many pain points. We wrestle with abstract concepts, powers and principalities, not people. Two more obvious facts: there was a plot to kill charlie kirk and commandeer TPUSA, and Epstein was a major engineer in the 08 recession. It will take a bit for these facts to reach mainstream acceptance, but they seem inevitable - the propaganda campaigns against both are failing, the internet is just too powerful of a tool for open source grass roots journalism. The deception and coverup strategies that duped half animal Boomers fall laughably short against half machine Zoomers. Both of our political parties, within the last year, have become split along generational lines. Zoomers were never naïve enough like millennials, we do not cry for a world we never expected to receive, we also fall for zero conventional bullshit (but are susceptible to weird para social cults like nick). The proportion of Normies in each generation isn’t decreasing; I predict that by the end of Alpha, a majority of 18 year old dudes will have at least considered the JQ. It’s rather hilarious watching people like Nick, Candace and Tucker slowly figure out what is going on in our country and lose their pre-rational attachment to Trump. For the teenager who is intelligent and interested in politics enough, spending a bit of time online makes it very clear how each faction or worldview is misguided or naive. Unfortunately even many adults lack proper intelligence (a stupid person being identified as one who supports anything unwaveringly) and thus while they are correct in some of their diagnoses (woke Greenness is not the holy grail), they naively believe that there are simple answers (elect zion don cause he says mean words). Back in 2017, when I was laughing at nick the spic for being the embodiment of poc conservatives highlighting their western values while libs pulled Elizabeth Warrens, it was obvious that trump was compromised. What we are seeing now are the fruits of misplaced blind faith beginning to rot, finally; it took them a decade of lapping up everything Trump spewed out to realize. The main reason that i fuck with nick (not that i would ever bother watching his show) is that, of the conservative talking heads, whom i have almost no positive expectations for, he will be one of the few to pleasantly surprise me on occasion. In summer 2024, when he said that Trump has lost his meme energy and he was rocking with the brat coconut summer energy of Kamala, I said thank goodness that someone gave me a take that wasn’t boring. The conservative establishment drags behind the zeitgeist, but the anti-establishment commentators will eventually give you small pieces of discrepancy, even if it is a painfully slow drip. Over the last decade of monitoring the situation, I’ve watched nick become the primary caretaker for that drip, but it seems to be on the verge of becoming a faucet. If the average conservative boomer finds out that his kid’s favorite political influencer was killed for asking questions, and that the financial crisis which cost him his house was very connected to this, we will see the boomer overcome the community values he was raised (indoctrinated) into. No longer will the post WW2 generation be the most passive in history. I find this change very concerning, and have been working tirelessly (and full time) on this topic. All change has the potential for both good and bad, but this one must be seriously guided with wisdom if we hope to transmute such internal chaos and upheaval into awareness-raising self-organizing progress. If you could say one thing to nick, or ask a question, what would it be? I find this topic very important, so if any would like to chat my signal is wof.53